Naked Bible Podcast Episodes 187 and 188: Evangelical Theological Society Conference Interviews

It’s that time of year – a new round of interviews with scholars and professors at the annual meetings of the Evangelical Theological Society (ETS). Here are the two episodes into which those interviews were grouped. Stay tuned for interviews from the SBL Meetings as well!

Naked Bible Podcast Episode 187: ETS Conference Interviews, Part 1

• In this first installment we talk to Hugh Ross about his new book, Improbable Planet, and his apologetics ministry; Doug Groothuis about anti-intellectual attitudes in the believing Church; Andy Naselli about his new book on “higher life” (Keswick) theology; and Maurice Robinson about his scholarly work on the Byzantine-Majority text type of the New Testament.

In this unique episode of the Naked Bible Podcast, Dr. Michael Heiser offers a front-row seat to key conversations from the 2017 Evangelical Theological Society conference. He interviews four well-respected scholars on apologetics, theology, and textual criticism, providing listeners with insight into some of the most important academic discussions impacting the Church today.

• Dr. Hugh Ross opens the episode with reflections on Improbable Planet, exploring how astronomy and science support the biblical worldview.

• Dr. Doug Groothuis raises concerns about anti-intellectualism in modern evangelicalism and makes a compelling case for recovering a biblically grounded Christian mind.

• Dr. Andy Naselli critiques Keswick theology, explaining how its view of sanctification deviates from Scripture and causes unnecessary confusion among Christians.

• Dr. Maurice Robinson provides a masterclass in New Testament textual criticism, defending the Byzantine Majority Text and its role in biblical scholarship.

This episode is a rich mix of science, theology, church history, and biblical scholarship. It’s ideal for listeners who want to go deeper in their understanding of the issues shaping today’s evangelical landscape.

Interview Lineup:

• (2:30) Dr. Hugh Ross – Apologetics & Cosmology
  Ross discusses his book Improbable Planet, focusing on fine-tuning, cosmic design, and how astronomy supports biblical theism. He connects his scientific background with a robust apologetic for creation and Scripture.

• (25:00) Dr. Doug Groothuis – Anti-Intellectualism in the Church
  Groothuis highlights the dangers of anti-intellectual attitudes among Christians and urges the Church to reclaim a commitment to reason, learning, and thoughtful engagement with culture and ideas.

• (36:50) Dr. Andy Naselli – Keswick Theology (Higher Life Movement)
  Naselli introduces his book critiquing Keswick theology, a popular but problematic view that promotes a two-tiered Christian life. He explains its roots, dangers, and how it distorts the biblical doctrine of sanctification.

• (52:25) Dr. Maurice Robinson – Byzantine Majority Text
  A deep dive into New Testament textual criticism with a leading expert on the Byzantine/Majority text tradition. Robinson explains its significance, contrasts it with the Critical Text, and responds to common critiques.

This episode offers listeners a panoramic view of evangelical scholarship, blending science, philosophy, theology, and textual criticism into one edifying resource.

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Naked Bible Podcast Episode 188: ETS Conference Interviews, Part 2

• In this second installment of ETS interviews, Mike chats with Carl Sanders and Ronn Johnson, two long-time friends. In the first part of the conversation with Carl and Ronn, we focused on their own response to “higher life” sanctification and reminisced about our academic and teaching experiences. In Part 2, Mike, Carl, and Ronn conduct a thought experiment to illustrate what biblical-theological geeks do at these meetings by asking Ronn to toss out a new view of the atonement he’s been thinking about and then probing it for strengths and weaknesses.

In this intimate and lively episode of the Naked Bible Podcast, Dr. Michael Heiser reunites with long-time friends Carl Sanders and Ronn Johnson at the annual Evangelical Theological Society (ETS) conference for a two-part conversation blending theology, reflection, and unscripted exploration.

In Part 1, the group shares personal and theological insights into the appeal—and theological problems—of Higher Life (Keswick) theology. The conversation reflects on how this two-tiered model of sanctification influenced their early spiritual formation and how they’ve come to embrace a more grounded, Scripture-based understanding of Christian growth.

In Part 2, Heiser invites Ronn Johnson to throw out a new or evolving idea about atonement theology, sparking a live theological thought experiment. What follows is an organic dialogue where the scholars test and refine the model together, illustrating how real theological work is done—with humility, curiosity, and biblical rigor.

This episode is an excellent glimpse into how scholars form, challenge, and sharpen theological concepts in community. Listeners will find it both intellectually stimulating and spiritually encouraging.

Part 1 – Reflections on “Higher Life” Sanctification & Academic Life

The trio discuss their personal and theological reactions to “Higher Life” or Keswick theology, which was addressed more formally in Episode 187 with Dr. Andy Naselli. They share:

• How this theology shaped their early experiences in church and seminary

• Why it's appealing but ultimately theologically misleading

• The importance of discipline and realism in sanctification
  They also share stories about their academic journeys, classroom experiences, and the spiritual formation of theology professors.

Part 2 – Atonement Theology “Thought Experiment”

In a fun but serious theological sandbox-style exercise, Dr. Heiser invites Ronn Johnson to share a new or modified model of atonement he’s been thinking about. This leads to:

• A live, unscripted brainstorming session between three trained theologians

• A testing of the model’s biblical coherence and theological strengths/weaknesses

• Broader discussion about how atonement is framed in evangelical circles, and whether more narrative-based or relational models could supplement classical ones

This episode provides a rare look into how biblical scholars think out loud, wrestle with Scripture, and value both clarity and curiosity in theological dialogue.