UPDATE 3/7/2018: Fern and Audrey now have their own non-profit ministry. Please donate to Discovering MErcy!
EDITOR'S UPDATE: Discovering MErcy is no longer a functional ministry.
This episode follows episodes 68 and 120. Fern, Audrey, and Beth minister to trauma victims whose trauma has produced DID (Dissociative Identity Disorder) or involved Trauma-based Mind Control (TBMC). If those terms and associated concepts are unfamiliar to you, then episode 68 is an essential precursor to this episode. This episode focuses on addressing listener questions about this ministry. What you’ll hear in this episode, however, isn’t a model for ministry. As you listen, do not assume you can take what’s said today, get the transcript, make a checklist, and do this sort of ministry. The episode discusses in some detail how the ministry of Fern, Audrey, and Beth differs from traditional deliverance ministry and why those differences matter.
The episode is now live.
In Episode 149 of the Naked Bible Podcast, Dr. Michael Heiser is joined once again by Fern, Audrey, and Beth for a follow-up Q&A episode on ministering to survivors of Dissociative Identity Disorder (DID) and Trauma-Based Mind Control (TBMC). This conversation builds on the foundational discussions from episodes 68 and 120.
The episode opens with a clear distinction between trauma ministry and traditional deliverance/spiritual warfare models. Rather than naming and casting out demons, Fern, Audrey, and Beth focus on rebuilding identity in Christ, exposing lies embedded through trauma, and helping survivors reconnect with their true calling as God’s imagers.
Dr. Heiser outlines his Divine Council framework, explaining the difference between demons, Watchers, and the elohim of the nations—a crucial distinction missing in most spiritual warfare paradigms. The team also addresses the disturbing and deceptive idea (seen in both survivor programming and New Apostolic Reformation circles) that fallen beings can be redeemed—a theological error that leads to emotional and spiritual ruin.
Beth offers a powerful and painful personal testimony about how her own family was deceived by charismatic experiences and false doctrines about interceding for fallen angels. The discussion underscores how giftedness can be used by intelligent evil to mislead even sincere believers.
Other questions explore how this deception intersects with childhood trauma, the desire for spiritual authority, and even the condition of autism. The episode closes with an invitation to like-minded believers who want to help survivors—not through formulas, but through long-term relational commitment grounded in truth.
This is a must-listen for those seeking a mature, biblically-informed approach to trauma healing and spiritual warfare, free from sensationalism and grounded in divine identity and kingdom mission.
Episode Overview with Thematic Timestamps
| Timestamp | Topic / Segment |
|---|---|
| 03:40 | Episode framing: difference between trauma ministry vs. deliverance/spiritual warfare ministries |
| 10:00 | Heiser lays out the 3-tiered "intelligent evil" hierarchy (Eden rebel, Genesis 6 Watchers, Babel’s elohim) |
| 20:00 | Explanation of the Divine Council worldview and why it reorients spiritual abuse ministry approaches |
| 25:00 | Deception regarding the “redemption of fallen beings” — Beth shares personal family story tied to NAR movements |
| 35:00 | Channeling fallen beings vs. demon possession; language of “walk-ins” and spiritual deception |
| 45:00 | Giftedness, deception, discernment, and the difference between authentic spiritual maturity and experiential traps |
| 50:00 | “Staying in the terrestrial realm”: how Heiser's theology helped shift Fern & Audrey’s ministry boundaries |
| 55:00 | N.T. Wright quote on idolatry, human vocation, and slavery to spiritual powers |
| 1:00:00 | The trauma survivor’s will: why intelligent evil targets the identity and purpose of humans from early childhood |
| 1:03:30 | Brian’s question: Where are victimizers found? Why aren’t they prosecuted? (Includes “Project Bluebird” reference) |
| 1:06:30 | Offers of help: how people can get involved, future training via relational trust, not templates |
| 1:10:00 | Autism & trauma ministry: comments from Beth as pediatric OT; prayer and will engagement principles |
| 1:12:30 | GoFundMe outcomes: 17+ survivor trips funded, call for continued support |
| 1:14:30 |
Final reflections: the honor of shared pursuit of truth and practical hope for those affected |
从百度进来的，拜读一下贵站博文先
丁酉年(鸡)二月十五 2017-3-12
This is a GOTO episode for the subject matter. Having listened to all the episodes on the subject, I recommend listening to this one first.
It took three listens, for me, to get all the relationships straight. That’s not a weakness of the participants, it’s just the nature of the use of pronouns in normal discussions about this material.
Found this to be a very interesting episode, some real good practical advice discussed.
Found myself over the years wrestling with some of the things reviewed.
We are living in a time were the supernatural ideology in Christian thought is taking center stage again in the Church.
Believers today are stretching themselves out for the faith, which was once delivered for us all.
As one whom has been very much in, around, near the things that are presently being manifested.One has to be very careful not to throw out the baby with the bath water.
I have seen the absurdly ridiculously strange phenomena, but I have also have seen the amazingly beautiful, living expressions of the powers of the age to come.
Today, I believe more than ever, the great need to be theologically literate on the great truths of scripture, but the tension always lye’s in the reality, that God is other than we, he sometimes does stagger our human sensibilities.
Good that you’ve seen the positive with so much of the other popping up all the time.