This follow-up to Part 1 on these popular and controversial chapters focuses on the interpretation of the Gog-Magog invasion as a whole. Special attention is paid to how Rev 20:7-10 re-purposes Ezekiel 38-39 and how that re-purposing is consistent with a sound interpretation of those two chapters in their own context. They key to this consistency is recognizing the cosmic-supernatural outlook of elements in Ezekiel 38-39, particularly the description of participants and the burial of Gog and his hordes in the “Valley of the Travelers (Hebrew: ʿoberim)” in Ezek 39:11.
The episode is now live.
In this second part of his Gog and Magog series, Dr. Michael Heiser unpacks Ezekiel 39, a theologically dense passage about the final defeat of Gog and the public display of Yahweh’s unrivaled authority over the nations and the cosmic powers behind them.
Heiser walks through the imagery of massive burial, where the land is cleansed from the defilement of the enemy. He also unpacks the striking sacrificial feast motif in Ezekiel 39:17–20, which is later echoed in Revelation 19. Rather than interpreting this language through the lens of modern apocalyptic sensationalism, Heiser highlights the symbolic and typological purpose of the text—framing Gog not as an individual or modern political figure, but as a recurring archetype of supernatural opposition.
Heiser connects Ezekiel 39 with Revelation 20, showing how John repurposes the Gog and Magog theme for his own theological ends in the context of the final rebellion against God. The episode also continues to explore the cosmic geography of the nations and how Acts 2 begins the long-anticipated reversal of the Deuteronomy 32 worldview, as the nations are reclaimed by Yahweh through the Spirit and the Church.
This episode is a must-listen for anyone seeking a serious, biblically grounded understanding of Gog and Magog, the final conflict, and how divine justice, sovereignty, and restoration play out across the canon.
100% agree with Trey! With over 300 allusions and citations to the OT Revelation is by far my favorite book in the NT… that said, I think it would be an unenjoyable travesty for the MSH version to spend half of every episode talking about systems. Honestly, I wouldn’t even enjoy listening to that. Take 2 episodes at the very beginning to illustrate the different systems, 30 minutes each system… then don’t revisit those again until Revelation 19&20. That will free you up to just roll through the book citing OT allusions and citations along with Beale, Bauckham, Fee, etc. and just let Revelation be what it is… a beautifully written book. My two cents. Thank you for all that you do!
Every time you talk about eschatology I think to myself, wow, this is really, really complicated. I see now why you say that even the massive dispensationalism charts are simplistic compared to what’s really going on in the text!
Bingo
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Uh, Ezekiel, Daniel, and Revelation clearly describe their prophecies as supernatural visions from God which they did not fully understand. I think you put too much emphasis on the author’s thoughts. The “re-purposing” of Ezekiel 38-39 in Revelation 19 and 20 is from God, not the author John.
Also, you often point out the “Already, but not yet” motif, why couldn’t you have “Not yet, even more distant yet”. As in, a duel-fulfillment in a sense of Ezekiel 38-39.
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